[Interview] Tanlines Talk Live Performances, Trends in Electronic Music, and Their First Concerts (Part Two)

Brooklyn duo Tanlines have come a long way since their formation in 2008. After several years of releasing remixes, singles, EPs and featuring on compilations, Eric Emm and Jesse Cohen have firmly established themselves and the name Tanlines with the release of their debut LP Mixed Emotions, which dropped this past March on True Panther Sounds. The album sees both Emm and Cohen melding their collective talents into their most gratifying and seamless release so far, with each song delivering a fantastic mix of Cohen's production and drum work and Emm's emotive vocals and captivating guitar progression. Simply put, Mixed Emotions is fun, danceable, and consistently a joy to listen to.

During their recent tour, Emm and Cohen made their way to Fortune Sound Club in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada where the three of us sat down before their show and had the opportunity to chat. In part two of our interview, we discussed their live performance and the reactions they've garnered from fans, the various trends in electronic music and where Tanlines fits into that, and the first concerts they ever went to, including mine. Check it out after the jump, and, if you've yet to do so, head here to read part one.

Continued from part one.

Adrian: How has the idea of your music being danceable translated into your live performance and how have you worked around that?

JC: When we finished the album, we thought about how do we want to play the songs live? And we talked for a long about different ways we could do it, including putting a band together and just playing the songs with a drummer, bass player, keyboard player, guitar player, because all the songs would work that way; all the songs would work with just Eric singing them alone. We tried it a little bit and it was a very different thing. I think it’s a very cool thing, it would have been a very cool way to do the tour, but I don’t think it’s something people necessarily would have been satisfied with.

We wrote this album and we thought, “Oh, it’s a very different album, very different kind of music then we’ve been making in the past. It’s not electronic music, it’s a band or whatever.” And then, once the album started to get our there and people were saying, “Oh, it’s an electronic duo,” or “it’s a dance project,” we were thinking if we go out there with a band, people aren’t going to be satisfied. I’m not sure I would be either.

A: Similarly, when Holy Ghost! went on tour, they did that, they got the whole band, and it actually worked out. It actually sounded very good.

JC: You know, it’s sort of like we stuck to what we had been doing up until the point we did this album, which was performing as a two-piece, where it’s Eric singing the songs and playing guitar and I’m doing everything else. It’s not quite like a DJ/rapper situation, but it’s close. It’s like an electronic duo.

EE: That was the best thing about being called an electronic duo.

JC: It gave us the flexibility to perform however we wanted.

EE: If we showed up just the two of us with a computer, no one is going to say, “Pfft fuck these guys, they’ve got a computer, they don’t have a drummer.” So, it’s good cause we can do that.

JC: There is always time when we are making much more money to be adding the six person band. There is always time to go in that direction

A: You can always try it out for a while, and see how it goes.

JC: We practiced on the drums and guitar with no samples or anything, and it sort of sounded like 311, so we decided to just wait for a while. But, I can tell that the direction of the songs that we’re writing are going in is the direction of more traditional instrumentation. I don’t know what will happen next.

A: How has the reaction been from fans and at concerts?

JC: Pretty good, pretty good.

EE: Everywhere is different. You do the same thing every night in every city, which we more or less do, although we do vary the set a little bit. People’s reactions are always different, but they’re generally good. No one has come up to me and said, “You should be a band. You guys need a five or seven-piece band.”

JC: It’s true. I mean, that’s sort of the thing when we first started making music three or four years ago, we didn’t play live. But, when we started to play live, we just thought we’ll do what we can do, and we weren’t really expecting anyone to be interested in it. We actually got a pretty good reaction, and a lot of people who were knew or people who work in our little record industry that we’re a part of were like, “On paper it doesn’t sound like a thing that would be good live, but it turns out that they’re live band is pretty good.” And so, that definitely made us… [pauses]

A: A little bit more confident.

JC: Exactly. I would say that if we hadn’t done that then we wouldn’t have made it this far. Playing live is definitely one of the main things that sort of pushed us to keep going. It’s way, way more satisfying to play a live show or to meet a guy who drove down from the Bronx cause he heard “Real Life” on the radio and he loves it and it changed his life or whatever. There are tiny little experiences worth way more than putting a song out that gets a lot of comments on a blog. No offense to blogs.

A: No, none taken [laughs]. I feel the same way about music sometimes. If I hear a song and it makes me react that way then it doesn’t really matter how many people are talking about it on The Hype Machine or anything like that.

JC: Yeah, it’s way harder to quantify. I think that’s part of the evil of the music Internet in that so much of it is about quantifying comments, views, and all of the good things about music, and it’s always been this way. It’s like that with record sales too. The things that people actually like about music are not quantifiable.

A: It’s personal.

JC: Right, it’s hearing a song ten years later and feeling the same way you did ten years ago. Those are the things that people actually like about music, and all those different ways to quantify aren’t missing the point because business relies on doing that, that’s how you make money. But that’s not why people care about music, and so for us, releasing music on the Internet is not ultimately that satisfying.

A: So the live experience is much more satisfying because you see first hand people’s reactions.

JC: Yeah, and also making songs that will hopefully linger a little bit longer than just like a track, or a remix. I don’t think anybody has ever had a remix change their life.

A: There are some good remixes out there.

JC: There’s a couple! And the sad thing is, in those cases the remix sort of outshined the original song.

A: RAC does some very good remixes though.

JC: Who?

A: RAC, the Remix Artist Collective. Ever heard of them?

JC: No.

A: It’s a few musicians from around the world, primarily André Allen Anjos, who do really good remixes. “Home” by Edward Sharpe and The Magnetic Zeros. That remix by RAC is fantastic.

JC: Don’t get me wrong, there are remixes that I’ll hear that are fantastic, but I do think that you have a different relationship with it than you do with an original song that you’ve heard forever. With a remix, there is an additional layer between you and the music. It’s just different.

A: Because it’s someone else’s influence on top of the original influence.

JC: Yeah, it’s just, you know, whatever [chuckles]. But anyway, that’s pretty much how we’ve grown to think about music, and ourselves, and what we want to try to do, what we want to try to create. Also, the electronic music world, that’s a world that moves extremely fast, with a lot of trends, and I think realistically being thirty-something guys, with our background, and where we come from musically, that’s not a game that we could play well. That’s a game for some other type of musician, like either a twenty-two-year-old kid from London that’s super inspired and is making some raw shit that no one has ever heard before, or a guy who has been in it for a long time and understands it really well. That’s not our background, and that’s just a game that we don’t want to play, didn’t want to play, trying to keep up with that. It was more we wanted to write an album of music.

A: That’s an unfortunate case, though, where a lot of artists are well known for a year or something like that and then quickly disappear. That happens a lot in electronic music, and even things like dubstep, as much as people like it now, it will eventually fade away.

JC: Yeah, I mean it’s definitely something we’re fighting also because we are associated with a tropical, 2009 wave of tropical-inspired electro, or whatever it is that was at the time when we started making music. I definitely feel the force of people wanting to tell us that’s not relevant anymore like they would in the electronic world. I think the album that we wrote, I believe, transcends that because the core of every song that we wrote could be from anything. But, I definitely feel the “game,” just in terms of how people write about us, and I guess that’s the price of making music in part of that world.

A: Even with this in mind, you guys have done really well for yourselves.

JC: [humbly] Thank you, I think so too.

A: And honestly, I had a huge electronic phase a couple of years ago, and it’s kind of gone away, well, sort of.

EE: I had a Zeppelin phase a couple of years ago [laughs]. I listened to nothing but Zeppelin, and now I don’t. Although when I hear the songs on the radio I know them all.

A: Well that’s good at least. It’s just one of those things where I had that huge phase, but I don’t really need to go back to it, and a lot of the songs, I don’t feel, have really kept up with my life. I don’t really feel anything for them anymore, whereas something like what you both have done can last for years and years, the lyrics especially. It’s the kind of stuff that happens in all walks of life, so it’s very relatable.

JC: I hope so. It’s interesting, releasing music in 2012 is completely different than releasing music in 2009. It’s amazing how much things change, and how quickly they change.

EE: Our perspective is different too. It makes a real difference.

A: And considering how far you guys have come, what excites you about the current situation and everything that’s going on right now?

EE: In terms of everything that’s going right now, the most exciting thing is playing for people, you know, looking forward to a show that day, and when it’s over the show the next day. Maybe not so much the day off because we’re having to drive for a long time or get up at seven in the morning to drive to Seattle to play on the radio at noon. But, we still look forward to it.

A: What does the future hold you, then? And what are your plans after the tour?

JC: If you have a career as an artist or an entertainer, and we have a career as both, it can be very difficult to plan for anything. Our plan is just to work hard, and try to seize every opportunity we can make for ourselves.

EE: We just say yes to everything.

JC: I mean, we want to do whatever we can to reach as many people as possible, and I don’t know how exactly you can do that. Right now is a hard time because a lot of things are out of our hands. We already wrote the album, we already made the artwork that we wanted to make. A lot of the creative decisions were made already, so it’s just letting the ball roll down the hill and see how far it goes. It’s not up to us anymore.

A: It’s more or less up to fans who want to listen to it.

JC: Yeah, we could say we only want to do these things, we only want to play these cities, we only want to do this. We’re not really trying to do that. We’re trying to do as much as much as we possibly can, honestly. I think that any audience is a good audience as far as I’m concerned, and I wanted to create as many experiences as possible where our music is the soundtrack.

A: That’s a great mentality.

EE: It’s exactly that, there’s no better feeling than that.

JC: We actually met these kids and our show was the first they ever went to.

A: Really?

EE: Yeah! You meet people like that and it’s like, “Wow.”

JC: It was crazy. I mean most people ten years later are embarrassed by the first show that they went to.

EE: Right. True.

A: Your first show?

EE: My first show? That’s hard to say…

JC: They Might Be Giants.

EE: My aunts took me to see The Temptations when I was eight-years-old.

A: That’s not the worst first show.

EE: Yeah, it was great. But what do I remember from it? Not much.

A: I don’t even want to tell you my first show.

JC: [insistently] You have to now.

EE: How bad could it be, unless it was Nickelback.

A: No, no, it wasn’t Nickelback. I absolutely despise them.

JC: But they’re Canadian. You’re contractually obligated to not hate them if you’re Canadian.

A: I feel like if you’re Canadian, you’re contractually obligated to hate Nickelback.

JC: Oh, I see, I see. So what was it?

A: Do you know the hip-hop group Swollen Members?

JC: Uh huh, are they from Vancouver?

A: Yeah, that was my first concert.

EE: I don’t even know them, so that’s not that bad.

JC: Yeah, that’s all right. What year was that? 2006?

A: No, I think it was 2002.

JC: So, you were eleven or twelve?

A: Yeah [laughs].

JC: All right, anything you do when you’re that old is fine. Just let it go.

EE: I would really not beat yourself up over that. It’s really not that bad. And once again, thank you for giving us gifts.

JC: Yes, thank you.

A: No worries at all. Thanks for taking the time to do the interview.

[Interview] Tanlines Talk Lyric Writing, the Creative Process, and "Danceable" Music (Part One)

Brooklyn duo Tanlines have come a long way since their formation in 2008. After several years of releasing remixes, singles, EPs and featuring on compilations, Eric Emm and Jesse Cohen have firmly established themselves and the name Tanlines with the release of their debut LP Mixed Emotions, which dropped this past March on True Panther Sounds. The album sees both Emm and Cohen melding their collective talents into their most gratifying and seamless release so far, with each song delivering a fantastic mix of Cohen's production and drum work and Emm's emotive vocals and captivating guitar progression. Simply put, Mixed Emotions is fun, danceable, and consistently a joy to listen to.

During their recent tour, Emm and Cohen made their way to Fortune Sound Club in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada where the three of us sat down before their show and chatted about their debut album, what influenced the creation of the LP, the differences between "dance" music and "danceable" music, and I surprise them with a couple of gifts from local Vancouver record store Red Cat Records. After the jump, you can read part one of my two part interview with Tanlines, with the second part set to go live tomorrow morning at 11:00am EST.

Adrian: Given that the two of you have been making together since 2008, you’ve had a lot of time to define your sound. Describe the initial period of Tanlines, the first couple of years, and what approach did you take when making your debut LP?

Jesse Cohen: Yeah, the first couple of years I would describe as our experimental period, where we were just sort of making songs, making tracks. We did all different kinds of things. We did remixes. We did a 12”. We did compilation appearances. A 7”. We released music in just about every single format other than an album in those first two years, and we also started playing live in the middle of those two years, also. Basically all those experiences led to us sort of figuring out how we wanted to approach the album, you know, which was just writing songs around Eric’s vocals. That was pretty much the main thing, and we had just sort of settled on sounds that we liked, synth sounds that we liked, bass sounds that we liked, drum sounds…

Eric Emm: A palette.

Jesse Cohen: Yeah, just sort of a palette of sounds, and Eric’s guitar and voice obviously. So then, when we went to write the album, we were doing less experimenting with sounds and more just songwriting.

Adrian: And speaking of songwriting, the LP is titled Mixed Emotions, and Eric, you do most of the songwriting. Describe the emotional ambiguity of the album as a whole, the lyric writing process, and how the music reflects what you’re vocalizing.

EE: Well, the way we write is we first make the beat. We’ll get together and Jesse will play a drumbeat usually, and we’ll start adding some music on top of that. We usually know if something is good, and we can sense that okay this is good and we’ll keep playing with it. And then, sometimes we’ll be like, “eh, I don’t know,” in which case we’ll do something different. But, usually when we sense that something is good, the next day we’ll go to the studio, I’ll play guitar over it and then I’ll try to do vocals. So, I’ll take it, I’ll listen to it, and I’ll just start singing. The singing starts as sort of a reaction to the music, and typically I’m just singing the things that come to my head and often it’s just, like, a melody. And I think the thing is the melody first and the lyrics second.

I just read an interview with James Mercer of The Shins, and he was asked sort of a similar question about you know, like, what’s the fun part about writing? It’s writing the moment it happens is the best. And, he said writing the lyrics is sort of the homework, and I can definitely relate to that, because after that initial burst of creativity has passed you’re faced with thinking about… You know often times the lyrics on the record are things that just came out, and they stayed, and they made sense. But then, that second verse is always the tough part.

A: So, it’s just a lot of looking at the instrumentation you’ve made and just seeing what comes out?

EE: Yeah, it’s like reading what comes out of you, and trying to understand what it is and how to complete the thought.

A: With that in mind, what went into influencing the album, whether it’s music past or present, or life in general, or where you’re from?

EE: Life in general is a great way to put it.

JC: That’s a good album title. In fact, I’m putting that on my list.

EE: Definitely add that to the list.

A: If you take that, I get credit for it.

JC: Yes, absolutely. You’ll get thanked on the album. That’s the credit you’ll get for that.

EE: Yeah, just like we thanked the Rolling Stones.

JC: “Mixed Emotions” is a Rolling Stones song.

EE: Well, I mean, it’s not an unusual phrase. Anyways, so I think a lot of the songs lyrically were sort of informed by the situation that we were in where we had just done this tour of Europe and we were coming back from the tour to start working on our album. Halfway through this tour in Europe we got a phone call from my sister-in-law, who lives in the building that our studio is in, and she said that we got an eviction notice from the building, cause it was an illegal warehouse, loft kind of place. And that sort of sent us a little bit into crisis mode. We were so psyched to start working on our record, and that was all we were thinking about and it was immediately sort of… [pauses].

A: Just a big shock.

EE: Yeah. And that just snowballed into these bigger thoughts about life and change and transition, and your age and where you’re at, where you thought you would be, where you’re headed; things like that.

JC: I co-sign everything he just said [laughs].

EE: But really, when people ask us about the lyrics and the meaning and all that stuff, and I would think there’s a simple answer. It’s sort of along the lines of what you said in terms of life in general. It’s sort of like basic life things.

A: Life problems, life situations.

EE: You know. Some of the songs are about relationships.

A: That happens a lot in music.

EE: Exactly, it happens a lot in music.

JC: All the songs are about me.

EE: A lot of the songs are about Jesse.

A: And his relationship problems with you?

EE: Yeah, cause he can’t sing, and he doesn’t really write lyrics. You know, I wanted to get some of his story out there.

JC: I think it would be funny, though, if there was a duo where one person wrote the lyrics and all the songs were about the other guy [laughs].

A: What would that be called then?

EE: Tanlines.

JC: In terms of the process, I don’t know, but I know the feeling of spontaneously writing music, and it’s sort of like a dreamy state that it comes out of. And I imagine with lyrics, when Eric would just write stuff while he was singing. Sometimes then you listen to it the next day and the melody is there, but then, you have to do the homework of filling in the blanks, filling in the lyrics. Or looking at the lyrics and really thinking is that something I actually want to say or is that not something I want to say, and you make some adjustments. I imagine it’s not that unlike when you’re at your most inspired. And you’re a writer. Do you ever just write?

A: All the time. I paint, also, so that happens a lot where I’ll just start painting something and spend an entire day on it, and not really eat, and at the end of the day look at it and say, “I created this.”

EE: That’s exactly it.

JC: I hear with writing it’s the same thing, where you’ll just start writing and you tell your mind not to stop, you just write. You can do really creative work, but then you might read it the next day and say, “Half of this is crap. Half of this isn’t really something I would want to stand by.” I think it can be the same thing with music. You want to get to a zone where things are just coming out of you. Then the next part is the processing of that, and then you listen to it and you think, “Is this going to stand out or do I have to change it?” The good stuff stays.

A: That happens quite often, where I’ll look back at an essay or review I’ve done and go back and think, "This is absolute crap."

JC: Do you ever write back to the band and apologize to them?

A: Well… no… [laughs]. What if I gave it a good review and then go back and tell them it was actually bad?

JC: No, never tell them. Never, ever, ever.

EE: Never, never, ever say anything. Always be confident even if you’re not.

A: [laughs] Well, getting back on track, in 2009 the two of you did an interview where you talked about the idea of your music not so much being "dance" music, but rather "danceable," and how that was a very prominent idea. You also used Depeche Mode as a reference point, and I actually have a gift for you guys.

JC: Is this a Nardwuar style interview?

A: Perhaps, just a bit.

[Here, I presented both Jesse and Eric with a vinyl copy of Depeche Mode’s 2001 album Exciter—pictured at the bottom].

JC: Wow! That is amazing!

A: And do you guys know a lot about Talking Heads, and David Byrne, the frontman of the band?

JC: Yeah, of course.

[Here I presented them with the 12" vinyl of David Byrne’s 3 Big Songs—pictured at the bottom].

JC: Oh my god.

EE: I’ve never even heard this record. I don’t even know what it’s called.

JC: Is it a solo album?

A: It’s a three song single called 3 Big Songs.

JC: I’ve never even heard of that album.

EC: Man, this is too nice. You can’t do this.

A: No, it’s for you to keep.

JC & EE: Thank you very much.

A: You're welcome, and with the idea of these bands and their sound, it’s not dance music, it’s just danceable.

EE: It’s just music you can dance to.

JC: If you feel like it.

EE: Or if you’re sitting at your desk typing an email.

JC: I think when you call your music dance music, you’re asking a lot of the audience.

A: You’re expecting the audience to dance to it, and you’re forcing this on them, whereas bands like Depeche Mode or Talking Heads established the idea that you can listen to it if you’re depressed, you can listen to it if you’re happy, you can dance to it if you want to, you can not dance if you want to. How did that come to influence your music, and how has it come to influence the new album?

JC: I would say that if anything we wrote songs on this album and it’s not a conscious thing. I think it’s again who we are and where we come from. We’re not dance music guys. A lot of the music I like is sort of rhythmic-oriented music, so the music that I make is rhythmic. That’s really all I can do, and melodies too. But the main thing I can write is like drum patterns, drum beats, and sort of rhythmic stuff. So that’s what I gravitate to, and I don’t really think that’s Eric’s background, or at all. There’s a combination of things, but we’re sort of torn on the dance thing because it’s not who we are. I know it’s not who we are. We write these songs, like these pop songs, and the last thing I would do is call it dance music. The last thing I would do is to ask something of someone.

A: Force something upon the audience.

JC: Right, and if you do that and people don’t dance then it’s a failure, like everyone sort of failed collectively. It’s like, why aren’t you dancing?

EE: There’s nothing worse than asking people to dance.

JC: That’s the worse thing to do. Or have you ever been out at a wedding or a show and someone is like, “Come on, come dance!” and you don’t feel like it? That’s taking a good thing and making it a very bad feeling.

A: This is reminding me of childhood where they would force you to go to dances at school, and it’s the worst thing ever. I feel like if music is forced upon you, then it becomes that much less gratifying to listen to.

JC: Also, people’s relationship with music is very personal, and they want to experience music the way they like to experience it. They don’t like to be told how they ought to be experiencing it. I mean, we just write songs that we like, and trust that if we’re good, and our songs are good, then people will respond to them in any way that they want to. That’s all you really ask for. And, I mean, we have a lot of songs with a 4/4 thump on them, just cause it works, and I like that, I think it sounds good.

A: And it makes sense, it’s a very catchy drum beat.

To be continued...

Depeche Mode's 'Exciter' [2001]

David Byrne's '3 Big Songs' 12" [1981]

[Interview] Observer Drift Talks Minneapolis, Bandcamp, the Recording Process, and More

Minneapolis-based bedroom musician Collin Ward, humbly known as Observer Drift, has quickly garnered attention from music fans across the globe with his captivating chillwave sound. Beginning with the release of his debut EP Colored My Heart Red in December of last year, Observer Drift has quickly become defined for an atmospheric soundscape of guitar melodies, mesmerizing reverb-drowned vocals, and hauntingly beautiful and subtle synthesizers. Since then, Observer Drift has released his debut LP Corridors, as well as a brand new standalone track titled "Hiding Place." The attention is growing, and it's well deserved.

I recently had the opportunity to talk with Collin about the Observer Drift project, how it started, how it has grown, what has influenced it, and what lies in the future. It was refreshing to hear Collin's humble take on the sudden increase in attention, as well as his perceived advantages of being a bedroom artist. After the jump, you can read my full interview with Collin Ward, and after doing so make sure to follow him on both Twitter and Facebook. As well, both his Colored My Heart Red EP and Corridors LP, along with his new track "Hiding Place," are all available on his Bandcamp page for the price of your choosing.

Adrian: The name Observer Drift, where did it come from and how does it embody the sound and style of your music, as well as you as a musician?

Collin Ward: I decided to start using the title when I was in a psychology class at the college I go to. My teacher briefly mentioned a term from the book called "observer drift," and how it's basically the occurrence of two people starting to view things the same way or starting to agree more and more on a subject and see it from the same perspective. I thought it was a really cool and interesting subject, and the two words (observer and drift) really stuck out to me and seemed to be floating around in my head for the next week after I heard them. When I started this project, very few people even knew that I was doing it. So, when the album came out, a lot of people were very surprised and thrown off. The fact that I was kind of quiet about my music seemed fitting with the name as well, since for most of the time that I was writing the album I simply observed everything around me and took it all in to try to find inspiration for each song. The word 'drift' is perfect too because I daydream a lot throughout the day, especially at school and work (laughs). 

A: Having grown up and lived in Minneapolis, how has the city reflected upon your music as well as your views of music in general? And who are your favorite local musicians, whether they’re well known or not?

CW: Minneapolis has an awesome music scene, I think. A lot of support too. I've been getting airplay on three different radio stations in Minneapolis and got featured in the Minneapolis based news journal called City Pages. I have found out about some great local bands from these sources. The Farewell Circuit, Night Moves, Polica and Vicious Vicious, to name a few. I'm really glad I grew up here and a lot of what I've experienced in living here is reflected in my music. Not that my lyrics are about Minneapolis, but just the suburb I grew up in and all the people around me. I think location has a huge role in most music. I grew up with an awesome childhood. I loved every second of it. The fact that a lot of my lyrics are surrounded by childhood feelings and memories kind of makes it obvious that I wish that I could be eight years old again. 

A: For sure, location is very important, as is how your music is distributed. Bandcamp, for example, is how you got your start, and avenues such as Bandcamp provide a fantastic opportunity for more and more people from around the world to listen to lesser known artists like yourself. What are your opinions on avenues such as Bandcamp or Soundcloud, and the ability for bedroom artists such as yourself to use these avenues in order to put yourselves and your music out there for anyone to discover?

CW: When my album was done, I just put it on Bandcamp, and that's it. I didn't try any crazy self promotional schemes, Bandcamp literally generated the buzz for me. These platforms are great, because it's a perfect starting point to get your music into people's hands so you can get some feedback. There are SO many bedroom artists and a lot of them don't get the credit they deserve, I'm sure, since there are probably thousands of them on Bandcamp. But, if your music really has a distinct sound and it deserves some credit, it will get it if you just put it out there for people to find. That's my two cents anyways (laughs).

A: In this regard, your music truly does have this distinct sound, and the arrangement of your music is very subtle and nuanced, with multiple layers coming together in such a harmonious manner. Describe your recording processes, and what difficulties or advantages it has.

CW: Initially, my methods were very hit and miss. I've still only been recording for a little over a year, so I'm still not that good at it. I would record parts one at a time and go back and play along with them adding layer by layer. I really didnt like the dry sound of my first recordings so I went back and altered them to make them more unique and catchy. I tried to make something that people could listen to more than once. I tried to write music that I myself would actually listen to (that's probably an obvious statement). But yeah, it was a lot of basic trial and error and dinking around on my guitar after school coming up with catchy hooks and melodies. The most difficult part was recording certain acoustic parts and vocals; that was tricky and I had to get used to hearing my own voice played back. I love writing lyrics, but would never really sing in front of people often. I really tried to work on strengthening my singing voice before I went in and recorded the vocal tracks. I would practice singing old jazz songs like Frank Sinatra and stuff with lots of range to try to get my voice kind of smoothed out. I still get kind of embarrassed when I hear my own voice in my songs on the radio. I don't know (laughts), it's just one of those things that don't really go away.

A: Speaking of your recording process and hearing your singing voice, how does it transfer to a live setting? And do you have any apprehension about performing live?

CW: I sitll have yet to play a live show with my music. I am very nervous about doing it, but at the same time I really want to. I have a pretty good idea of how I'm going to do it, it's just a matter of getting everything in place and practicing and getting the first show out of the way. I'm curious myself to see how well it will go over when it is live. It will be interesting, I guess... to say the least.

A: Shifting gears towards your releases, what is most influential on the music you create? Whether it’s your Colored My Heart EP or your debut LP Corridors, you seem to be influenced heavily by the sublime aspects of dreams and memories. Describe what goes into shaping your music, be it sound-wise or lyrically.

CW: Childhood memories and dreams, those were the key things I wrote about. The very first song on my LP Corridors is about a literal dream that I had while I was in the midst of writing the whole album. I woke up and just started jotting down all that I could remember about it and tried to shape some lyrics out of it. The dream was really hazy and kind of trippy, but there was street light and two people dancing, and that's what the chorus in the song is about: "We run to find the street lights at night. So we can dance. So we can dance to make things right." Songs like "Home Video" and "We Make Believe" are about really fond memories, like imaginary friends and my Grandpa. I really wanted to channel these memories and emotions through my music and make musical version of these memories, to put it one way. I love looking back on my past and reliving memories, so when I started writing music it was almost natural to write about these things. 

A: Aside from memories and dreams, the fact that you are a bedroom artist also becomes an apparent influence in your music, with the intimate setting of where it was created being evoked in the lyrics and sounds. What is so important about the space in which you create your music? And what are the advantages, or disadvantages, of being a bedroom artist?

CW: Well, if I stay up til 2am working on a song, I'm two feet away from my bed, so I can just crash right there when I'm done (laughs). Being in my room and around my house was great for writing my music because I was always at ease and was in a familiar place; I didn't feel nervous. No one knew what I was working on and it was nice to know that no one was listening to my songs before they were done, so when they finally were complete, they turned out exactly how I made them and shaped them. [It wasn't] how anyone else wanted it, but it was 100% of my ideas and hard work. A disadvantage is that sometimes it's definitely hard to get motivated when work needs to be done. Sometimes you just want to go outside or play video games because you're at home. I just had to get myself in the right mind frame to stay focused on new music when I had time to work on it. Also, music isn't my whole life. Being a home recording artist is great because the music is always there for me to work on. I can still focus on doing other important things with my life that I value just as equally.

A: Given that Observer Drift is becoming more and more well known and Corridors is seeing a good deal of success, it seems that music is becoming a more prominent aspect of your life. What does the future hold for you and for your music?

CW: I was not expecting any of the attention that my music has gotten. In fact, sometimes I wish I hadn't made my music public. It sounds crazy, but I like living quietly and just going with the flow. The sudden burst of attention with my music really made me nervous. Not that I didn't like it, I just wasn't really ready for it. I'm becoming more used to it now and i'm excited to move on with my next album and work on playing live shows. My plans thus far are to basically write an album that will be remembered... that sounds cheesy, but I'm seriously focusing in on making a new album that will outdo my last. I'm really determined to compose a meaningful and lasting album of songs touching on lots of subjects, but not too serious at the same time. I'm only twenty, so I don't think I should be taking myself too seriously yet!

A: Finally, three quick questions. The first, what is your favorite album of all time? The second, who is your biggest influence? And three, what are you listening to right now that you haven’t been able to put down since you started listening?

CW: Ah, ok i'll try to answer these with the first things that come to mind! Favorite album: ....The soundtrack forE.T. Biggest influence: My brothers. Right now i'm listening to Now, Now's album called Threads. It's super catchy and they're local! I was at their CD release show, they did a really killer job and I've been listening to the album a ton. After the show they signed the vinyl I bought and drew a picture of thier cat and signed the album for my cat, Finn.

A: I'll make sure to check them out!

[Interview] Future Unlimited Talk their Debut EP, SXSW, '80s Appreciation, and Drop a (Great) Pun

Future Unlimited's history has been short to say the least, but every single moment of the Nashville duo's musical endeavour has been very well spent. Starting as a friendship formed through a noise complaint, to experimenting musically while working on an independent movie soundtrack, to the present moment, the synthpop duo has grown in popularity and talent incredibly quickly. Two months ago, they surprised the blogosphere with the standout track "Golden," an anthemic synth-lovers dream steeped in the sounds that made '80s synthpop so great. The crooning vocals, the pulse-pounding synthesizers, the sweeping crescendos; Future Unlimited have tapped into the 1980s and used in a way that works beautifully with the current age.

Since the release of "Golden," Samuel D'Amelio and Dave Miller have released their slef-titled debut EP, performed at this year's South by Southwest, and were even featured in NME's "Top 10 Buzziest Bands of SXSW 2012." Things are only looking up for the Nashville duo, and I recently had the opportunity to chat with them about all things Future Unlimited. After the jump, you can read what Samuel D'Amelio and Dave Miller had to say to a few of my burning questions.

As well, make sure to follow the band on both Twitter and Facebook.

Adrian: Future Unlimited started as a noise complaint, did it not? Describe the beginnings of the band and the shared love the two of you have for ‘80s music.

Dave Miller: Our friendship started as a noise complaint yeah, but our musical relationship which has become Future Unlimited started last year. I was cooking in a small restaurant in Naples, FL when I got this call from some friends of mine that were making an independent film called Orca Park, and they asked me to do the score... so at that point Sam said I could crash on his couch for the duration of the filming. Sam encouraged me to get the hell out of GarageBand and experiment with some other DAWs. A couple days into the new DAW, our “experiment” ended up being the song "Golden."

Sam D'Amelio: Regarding the “shared love”—that’s kind of obvious at this point, right? ;)

A: In regards to this "shared love" for ‘80s music, who are your biggest influences from the decade, and what is it about the ‘80s that the two of you find to be so appealing and meaningful?

DM: I grew up with an older brother and sister who were always playing records in the house. I really took to the more post-punk and new-wave bands. I’ve always loved OMD, The Wake, Moby... The Cure... U2—those are the heavy influences. As far as contemporary artists—really dig Lansing-Dreiden/Violens, Bogdan Irkuk, College, and those 120 Days guys.

SD: My mother and father were total audiophiles—especially after their divorce (you know, when you try to find hobbies to fill up a void etc. etc.). I remember climbing through stacks of cassettes and vinyl – one that really grabbed me from the get go was Gary Numan (although that’s more 79’) and holy shit, the Eurythmics. Ric Ocasek with Beatitude, Tears for Fears, Depeche... shit like that. It’s just a whole mindset—those sounds, the synths, drum programming—for some people it’s a guitar shred off of Alice in Chains that does it, or a break from a Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth that does it—for me, it’s all about the synths.

A: Synths are heavily featured in your first track “Golden,” which was released only two months ago. The song immediately drew attention from all across the blogosphere, including myself. What can you tell me about the song, the meaning behind it, and how the two of you reacted to the reactions of those hearing it for the first time?

DM: "Golden" was the first track we conceived. It was one of those songs where the music just wrote itself long before we had the words. For me personally, it was a reach for something akin to a Tears For Fears chorus. I think Sam and I were both going for this green-street-hooligan-style football anthem, but the actual words are about the bullshit industry and dealing with a band of strangers, who become friends, then sometimes enemies. The reactions were initially what pushed us to keep writing—we’re incredibly grateful to be in this situation.

Future Unlimited - Golden by Future Unlimited

A: So, since you've continued writing following the release of “Golden," the two of you have garnered praise from blogs, music fans, and were even at this year’s South by Southwest, going so far as performing at a showcase put on by our good friends at Consequence of Sound. What was your experience like during SXSW? The atmosphere, the fans, the reactions? The two of you even made NME Magazine’s top 10 buzz bands of SXSW.

DM: Anyone who’s been to SXSW knows it’s hectic as hell, a lot of walking, free beer and tacos. It was actually a pretty chill time for us—we had fun and got to see some great artists and old friends we look up to. A lot of people weren’t expecting us to have a 4-piece with guitar and bass, but the response was really positive. Some may have wanted the “synth-pop” duo, but hey, being the new kids on the block, you can’t win over everyone. Not having a drummer (both Sam & I are drummers) was awesome—the setup is so less stressful.

SD: Oh man. I swore I’d never go back to SXSW some years ago, and boom, there we were again. I love it, but it’s definitely a clusterfuck. The actual shows were all really awesome—the CoS people were incredible—and the Popantipop showcases were a blast. The atmosphere was different at each show—being day/afternoon/night, but it was fun. Regarding the NME thing, I still haven’t completely wrapped my head around that one..

A: It's an impressive feat, and immediately following your whirlwind experience of SXSW, you released your debut self-titled EP for free on your website. Are the two of you pleased with how the EP has been received, and what stood out to you most following the release?

SD: To be honest, we haven’t even really paid attention to the reception. I mean, I hope it was well received—but I try to keep my eyes up and ahead. From what I’ve heard, it has something for everyone. Some people swear by one or two songs, and some people swear by some others. In the end, we’re just happy people like it. Genuinely.

A: Given that your time spent in the eyes of the media and music fans has been very short, there were bound to have been times when your music has been compared to the music of others. What comparisons have been made, and going forward, what do the two of you hope to do in order to further differentiate yourselves and your music from the rest?

SD: Yeah, but it really doesn’t bother us at all. We get Cut/Copy now and then, or The Drums, etc. If anything, it’s a compliment! We’ll let the music do the rest.

A: That's a good way of looking at things. With that in mind, what are your plans for the near future? Is a follow up to your debut EP in the works?

SD: The future... unknown. The original session which brought about all this (the “Cloak & Dagger” sessions) was a 6-month period that yielded around 18 tracks and god knows how many unfinished ones. The five on the current EP were just plucked out of a much larger session. It’s more or less a waiting game right now to see what to do with the next batch—whether we’ll keep doing free blasts, or wait to piece together a cohesive full-length. So I guess in answer to your question—yes!

A: On a final note, what have been the most exciting, or the most difficult or frustrating, moments over the course of your sudden upswing of attention and praise?

SD & DM: Life. Loss. We’ve both lost a lot of close family in the last year. Financially, we’re the worst we’ve ever been. Buying equipment is a joke because we can barely pay rent on the studio apartment we live in. It’s incredibly frustrating sometimes because it’s like, damn – imagine what we could do with a proper this or a proper that. But in the end, it’s what you do with what you’ve got. And right now, we have nothing, so the future’s unlimited from here.

[Interview] Example Sets His Eyes On The US, Dishes About Album Number Three

Photo credit: Mark Burstiner

In practically every other country other than the United States, Example is considered a world renown musician, with his album debuting at #1 in the UK and charting in Australia, Ireland, Germany, New Zealand, Scotland and Switzerland. Just like the many global musicians that have come before him, however, the US has not taken to the Playing In The Shadows singer... yet. Being inside of the US, it's hard for me to understand why it's so difficult for my fellow Americans to pick up on an artist like Example who can crank out such danceable tunes like "Won't Go Quietly", "Kickstarts", "Stay Awake" or his current single at American radio, "Changed The Way You Kissed Me". Hopefully this is about to change very soon. 

Two weeks ago at Gramercy Theater in New York City I had the privilege of not only catching his first show in America. I have to admit, I wasn't completely sold on Playing In The Shadows until I was at this show. The intensity of the highly catchy dance music thumping in your chest paired with the way that Example is able to command an audience to dance until their feet are ready to fall off at the show was finally what won me over for the album. In addition to catching the memorable set, I was able to sit down with Mr. Elliot Gleaves himself prior to the performance and pick at his brain for a little bit about his obsession with America, the struggles of slowly tackling the worldwide dance scene one city at a time, his unique approach to writing songs, some details about his upcoming fourth album and much more.

Kibbe sat down with Example backstage just before his first show in NYC/the US at Gramercy Theater on March 26, 2012. They discussed his style of songwriting, the struggles of UK acts breaking in the US market, and more!

[SKOA Premiere and Interview] Mesita Talks Nature, His New Album, and Premieres a Brand New Track Titled "Endless Build Into Nothing"

Mesita, the bedroom project of Denver, Colorado resident James Cooley, is set to self-release his brand new LP The Coyote, a fantastic twelve-track effort, tomorrow. Each song on the soon to be released album are vibrant, sprawling soundscapes, with Cooley's vocals driving forward beautiful instrumentals. The instrumentals themselves are what makes Mesita's music stand out, as layer upon layer of diverse percussion and guitars blend seamlessly with subtle synth work. The album is the culmination of years of development and learning, and the result is something amazing.

James recently took the time to answer some burning questions of mine, as well as allowing us the opportunity to premiere a brand new track off of The Coyote. We here at SKoA are pleased to premiere the song "Endless Build Into Nothing," an engrossing acoustic guitar-driven number perfectly represents the sound Mesita has honed in on over the past few years. Give the song a listen below, and after the jump you can read my full interview with the Denver-based musician. The Coyote is available now via Mesita's Bandcamp, and will see a physical release tomorrow.

Adrian: Now, first of all, for those who aren’t familiar with Mesita, tell us how it came to be. What are the origins of the Mesita project, and what urged you to create Mesita, and where did the name itself come from? Mesita is a community in Costilla County in the far south of Colorado, is it not?

James: Mesita has always been me alone recording in a basement or room or apartment. The music is all multi-tracked into Audacity, usually just sitting next to the computer with a mic or two and a guitar. I’ve been playing around with recording for a while, and Mesita became sort of the push to start really concentrating on it. The name Mesita comes from the first album Cherry Blossoms back in 2008, which was mostly recorded for fun, not much pressure... tried to loosen up and not concentrate that much on sound quality or lyrics (and man, that shows), and have fun with it. It was written about a camping trip my friends and I took to the Great Sand Dunes, located in the San Luis Valley, where Mesita, Colorado is. The name Mesita just fit with the project at the time and that was the most important thing. One word, three syllables, it just stuck around ever since.

A: Tell me about your personal history and how it has affected your music. What musicians are you influenced by (of note, I can’t help but compare you to the earlier work of Bon Iver), and how has the area you grew up in affected the ways that you interpret and create music?

J: Radiohead for sure. and the Black Keys. They were my favorite bands back in high school. I was blown away by the Black Keys after seeing them on Conan, and went to Media Play the next day to buy Thickfreakness. I absolutely love The Sea & Cake. and Destroyer. Rubies is my favorite album, ever I think... Ever since I heard it back in 2006, I’ve played it so many damn times. Surprised that disc hasn’t melted permanently into my car’s CD player... All of those during senior year of high school, and Jay Dee. I’d never heard anything like Donuts. It was such an exciting time with the internet, too. I had all this new music right at my fingertips, all this new access to become inspired by all sorts of incredible artists. Deerhoof is another one, such an incredible group. Most fun I’ve ever had at a live show for sure. And especially inspired by their attitude with music. Wilco’s A Ghost Is Born for sure...The Walkmen’s You & Me hit hard the summer of 2008. Had the opportunity to stay in NY for the first time in my life, and that album was the soundtrack. Wandering around, in the subways, through the parks, across bridges with every song sounding so right it was painful. One of those albums that will be sticking with me the rest of my life.

A: Cherry Blossoms and No Worries were your first EPs, which were released in 2008 and 2009, respectively. It is clear when listening to them both that you were playing around with different styles and techniques in order to find a sound that worked for you. Tell me about this process, and how has it been honed over the past 3 or 4 years with the release of Living/Breathing EP and Here’s To Nowhere?

J: I’ve been recording in a similar way since the first release back in 2008, just with a focus on multi-tracking in Audacity. The learning comes with each release, looking back on what worked and what to improve on. I was in college back in ‘08 and ‘09 for audio engineering, and so I picked up some valuable knowledge during that time. It just helped clear up some things I was definitely botching with production. The Living/Breathing EP was tracked in an apartment in Seattle, and not a great sounding room. Here’s To Nowhere was going for a minimalist, clean, quick in-and-out listen, light and a constant level throughout the whole album without anything to derail the listen from song to song. Same-y on purpose. Kind of a vacation album. Sort of one to put on and calmly drift through. This time around, the album was made with sort of the opposite philosophy, more adventurous, taking more time with certain ideas, and longer tracks that break into different directions, and a lot more exploration. Come on in and stay a while...

A: It becomes clear when listening to your music that nature holds a great deal of importance to you. Describe this relationship you have with nature, and how does it play into your music, whether it is lyrically, instrumentally or emotionally?

J: Nature has always been a part of my life. I grew up in Colorado, right up against the foothills. All sorts of outdoor activities all around. Hiking trails you can walk to, rivers you can bike to, ski resorts an hour drive away... I go camping with friends, or hiking. You’re just surrounded by it out there, it’s hard not to be inspired from it. It’s always been a part of my life so it’s always been an influence on this music.

A: Your latest LP The Coyote is finally out digitally, with a physical release soon to follow. What can you tell me about this album, the origins of the album, the recording process, and the meaning behind the vibrant 12-track effort?

J: Pretty much this whole thing has been recorded down in Austin. Had an opportunity to live in a house with two of my best friends from back home, so I took it. "The Front Range" was recorded back in Colorado late last summer, the rest in Austin. It was all recorded in Audacity with an inexpensive pre-amp and budget mics. I have this small walk-in closet where I ended up stashing my drum kit and tracking in. It initially began a lot more stripped down, but after getting so frustrated with how thin everything was sounding, I just kept layering and layering out of frustration. The album was going to be messy no matter what, so might as well go for that direction and capture as much of it as possible...

A: This album also marked a turning point in your career, in that your hard work and efforts are paying off and a great deal of attention has been given to the Mesita project. What can you attribute this to? And what are your thoughts and feelings about this release and the attention it is receiving?

J: Especially since I don’t play out much, there wouldn’t be anyone listening to this music if it weren’t for the consideration and support of the people and sites sharing it and spreading the word. I’ve been sending out music to people as Mesita since 2008, and have written every message, for better or worse, without a PR person or management. I’m pretty crap at it too, so I have a tremendous appreciation for those that read the terrible e-mails I write and still take a listen, and then take the time and effort to post the music. Because of them, I’ve had a good opportunity to keep releasing it. I try my best to make sure they know how much the support means. But the people at the sites just post it without asking for anything in return. They just enjoy sharing the music that they enjoy, and I’m so grateful for them.

A: The Coyote also marks a point in your career in the sense that, from my observation, you have taken everything you’ve learned and fiddled with over the years and finally honed in on a style that is wholly yours, wholly unique. What are your thoughts regarding the album and the sound that you have produced?

J: It’s all sort of been just taking a shot at it and learning from it, again and again. Nothing I’ve done came out sounding quite how I wanted it, but it’s gotten easier to keep going with it and learn from those mistakes, almost be thankful for them. I’m recording on pretty much the same equipment I’ve been since 2009, but all the lessons and new techniques to pick up along the way are helping me clean up and advance it. This album was just about trying to put some personality back into the stuff I was making, take some chances and see where it ended up. There was a point where I just stopped trying so hard and started having fun messing around with what was there.

A: Now that the album is released, digitally as of this moment, what are your future intentions? Will you get right back to working on more material, and is there a possibility of touring, whether it is short term or long term?

J: There are a bunch of other songs waiting in the wings right now. A few I wrote for this album that didn’t fit. Some songs from this album have been around since I started out. I’m writing new songs now, too. Trying to give myself an honest break, but also eager to continue on with what I’ve been doing. There are four different versions of the song "Search For Meaning." A short acoustic version that it started out as, a long sort of funky soul version. Also had one that sounded a lot more quiet and sparse, sounded like an entirely different song. It might even end up on a future release. I’m hoping to have at least another EP of new stuff by the end of the year. I like having one album a year. That span of time feels right. I’ll also try to get out of my comfort zone and play live, maybe this summer. If it starts working on that front, finally get together at least a small tour or something. But that all depends on where it goes from here.

A: Today, we are also premiering a brand new track from The Coyote, titled "Endless Build Into Nothing." Describe this song to me? What is the meaning behind it?

J: I tried to make this song soft and subtle, really build on it and drop parts out, make it flow as a long track. It meanders and sort of winds back similar to how it began, but changed. After the four tracks before it, I wanted this song to breathe a bit more and change the pace up as the album finished, but still feel a little unsettled until the closing track could wrap it all up. It touches on trying so hard for something or someone, that struggle starts to blur everything together, and it feels like the same thing over and over again. It loses its value, you want to give up, losing faith in everything, it all starts to become meaningless. This track is about the struggle to avoid falling in, or to snap yourself out of it and keep on after loss, for yourself and the good people around you. Slap yourself out of it, go help some other people and stop feeling so damn sorry for yourself. 

A: Being a bedroom artist, what advice can you give to other musicians, specifically those who are creating music from their bedrooms?

J: The advice I have to give others is the same I try to give myself daily and often struggle to follow. Make the music you want to be making. You’ll end up happier and better off in the future. Find honesty in tradition and excitement in experimentation, but stay grounded. Don’t get bummed if ignored by the popular tastemakers of the moment, and be thankful for the ones taking the time to listen to you. And don’t be tempted to change up your style to suit the overcooked trends being sold at the moment, either. Take ownership in your work, keep listeners on their feet, don’t let yourself become trapped by categorization. Have fun, stay honest with it. Avoid gimmicks. Trust yourself. Be weary of those who try to take control of your music away from you. Be cautious. Avoid those who promise success, and keep in mind why you’re making music in the first place.

The business around music has and will continue to be shady territory. Be patient with your growth. Keep it yours and keep it to a natural progression. Think long term with it, and keep working at it. If you’re uninspired, press record, see what comes out at the moment. It might turn into a solid idea, and if not, use it as practice. Just get your ideas down. Make something fun, or emotional, or abrasive, or therapeutic. Make people think, make people dance. Make it interesting and make it your own. Enjoy it or hate it, but feel something from it. Try out a new instrument, or dip into a different style. Learn something from anything you listen to. Maybe it’s what a performer is singing, how the vocals sound, the instrumentation, the production, the way the snare hits, the sound of the room, the melodies, rhythms, etc... Get something down and build from it. And be thankful for every single individual that listens to what you create, no matter if you ask them to or not, and for every opportunity that you have to continue creating it. And if you have love for music, you’re doing it right.

[Interview] Teen Daze Talks Fans, the Blogosphere, Touring and Gives Advice for Up and Coming Artists (Part Two)

Vancouver native Jamison came from humble beginnings in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia, a beginning which eventually led to studying abroad and a broadening view of the world. Through the absorption of books and knowledge, Jamison came to better understand the world around him, and music became the outlet for this influx of experience and insight. These lifelong influences and a passion for music that came to fruition early on in his life led to the creation of the Teen Daze project, a project that has since flourished. With numerous EPs under his belt, Teen Daze has dabbled in various aspects of the electronic realm, but with his forthcoming debut LP, the solo artist has refined his sound into a cohesive and ultimately more powerful and evocative way. All Of Us, Together is his most ambitious project yet, and it is clear that the album will come to define his rising career.

Teen Daze is gearing up to release All Of Us, Together on May 22nd via San Francisco record label Lefse, and, with a European tour set to start next week, the musician took the time to chat with me over the phone for a fantastic hour long conversation. During the second half of the interview, Teen Daze and I discussed how important fans, the blogosphere and how beneficial it is for bloggers and artists to work together, as well as giving advice to up and coming artists out there. You can listen to the 25-minute second half of my interview with Teen Daze below, and head here to listen to the first half in its entirety.

[Watch] Nardwuar Interviews A$AP Rocky, Action Bronson and Danny Brown

Vancouver's quirky and wacky personality Nardwuar the Human Serviette was a busy man during South by Southwest, having found time to charm the pants off A$AP Rocky, Action Bronson and Danny Brown with a slew of random gifts and knowledge that no one else would have been able to get away with. Check out the Danny Brown interview above, while the Action Bronson and A$AP Rocky interviews are available to watch after the jump.